Are character sheets private? - General Discussion - D&D Beyond General - D&D Beyond Forums (2024)

Is it an invasion of a player’s privacy for another player to find out the first player’s PC’s. Strength,, AC, hit points, etc.?

And, if so, why?

I've seen a lot of arguments on some presumed "right" to keep other players or even the DM in the dark about what's on a character sheet. I've never found any of them compelling.

D&D is a team sport (including the DM), team's function best when the team is aware of all the players capabilities. "I didn't know you could do that!" is a great line in a movie, but in a game it could be really annoying to a party if a character's features were obscured, especially if they would have been useful in other strategies prior to the "reveal."

The party is a team, it's just bad play to deceive or mislead the team. Trying to put some super special element into your story to drop on the players at a critical moment is not good playing, it's trying to insert a spotlight upon yourself not through playing the game but through the creative writing exercise you performed prior to the game.

The game's basically the opposite of poker in this regard so I think in best practices the player has no "right to privacy" in regards their sheet. Sometimes it takes someone else looking at your sheet to recognize resources that might make that player instrumental to a moment in the game. In my view, group thinking a strategy and players pointing out another characters assets isn't meta, it's collaborative play. A notion that a sheet has things on it that need to be "protected" from other player's prying eyes is just toxic paranoia IMO.

The ONLY time I could see such secrecy warranted would be a "intrigue" game, but that's another form of PvP which 5e doesn't support really well. Other games, like Alien has specific mechanics for agendas and cross purposes, but for the bulk of the game unless the DM has especially brewed in some reason for intra party conflict, it doesn't work that much.

Yea, I fully agree withMidnightPlathere. The mechanics of the rules have always assumed a 'team' functionality of the characters.

I suppose you could have something like the 'intrigue' he mentions, or perhaps someone is playing a particularly mysterious rogue in the party and the player want's to roll that way, so to speak. This would all have to include talks with the DM about how to do that in a fun way that doesn't negatively impact the rest of the game. :)

It's not an invasion of privacy.

You can set your character to Private on dndbeyond if you don't want other characters to see your stats.

If you are hiding your character sheet from your DM, then I would frown on that behaviour.

I very much like not knowing other PC's abilities - in real life you're unlikely to know what everybody else in your team can do.

Well, it doesn’t seem to matter. I didn’t and still don’t believe it is an invasion of privacy. I feel that it helps build the team.

I apologized for any grief I caused them by looking at the character sheets and told them that I don’t see it as an invasion of privacy and that my own character is available for them to see. I also promised to no longe look at any of their sheets now that I know how they feel.

But, it seems that the only think that will slake their anger is if I tell them that I agree that the act of looking at the sheets was wrong (which would be a lie).

Was it agreed to not look? It's perfectly fine to have a dynamic where everyone agrees to not look. During a one-shot we were told off for sharing details on our sheet - we could discuss it, say "I'm good at talking with people" but not say "I have a Charisma of 18 and proficiency in Persuasion". The DM felt this was metagaming. It wasn't a big deal so I just rolled with it.

If it was made known to not look, then it would be wrong.

As for otherwise...I find the situation alien in both sides. It's odd that someone (not the DM) would look without being invited to. I just wouldn't look unless I was discussing something with them and they invited me to look at their sheet. Kind of like if they leave a book on the table - they won't find me buried nose deep in it when they return - although I might ask. Conversely, getting bent out of shape because someone read your character sheet (outside of certain circ*mstances like mentioned earlier) is equally strange. It's a character sheet, not your book with your PINs in. Unless they're recording character secrets in it (sometimes they might, eg in Rime of the Frostmaiden), then there's nothing to hide.

As for apologising...do you want to be right, or be right with them? Obviously they're offended for whatever reason...then you can keep your pride, or keep the game. I'd probably word it something like: "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you and obviously that behaviour has upset you, I promise to not do it again".

There are times when keeping it private is important, like maybe the player is keeping their real class or race a secret for story purposes. But that’s rare, and the dm would be heavily involved in that and see the sheet. Any player in a game I run can keep their sheet open or closed to the other players but not me as dm.

As a player I look, to learn how other players built their character and I also invite players to look at mine, to ask questions of my build. I might spend a couple of weeks building a character and I am known for building intricate and unique characters.

I can say with confidence belonging to multiple campaigns that I am both a DM and player in, from the Campaign feature you can:

As a player: see other players character mechanical details. You CANNOT see the other players backstory details(as it should be!)

As a GM: dammit, I need to see your characters abilities AND your backstory so I can build encounters and role playing opportunities for you and the others in the group.

Now, I have no idea if everyone in the campaigns I am in clicked "Private" or "Public", but some things such as FoundryVTT's DnDBeyond importer mod needs the sheet to be public, so for my campaigns I ensured they selected Public.

Quote from Linklite >>

Was it agreed to not look? It's perfectly fine to have a dynamic where everyone agrees to not look. During a one-shot we were told off for sharing details on our sheet - we could discuss it, say "I'm good at talking with people" but not say "I have a Charisma of 18 and proficiency in Persuasion". The DM felt this was metagaming. It wasn't a big deal so I just rolled with it.

If it was made known to not look, then it would be wrong.

As for otherwise...I find the situation alien in both sides. It's odd that someone (not the DM) would look without being invited to. I just wouldn't look unless I was discussing something with them and they invited me to look at their sheet. Kind of like if they leave a book on the table - they won't find me buried nose deep in it when they return - although I might ask. Conversely, getting bent out of shape because someone read your character sheet (outside of certain circ*mstances like mentioned earlier) is equally strange. It's a character sheet, not your book with your PINs in. Unless they're recording character secrets in it (sometimes they might, eg in Rime of the Frostmaiden), then there's nothing to hide.

As for apologising...do you want to be right, or be right with them? Obviously they're offended for whatever reason...then you can keep your pride, or keep the game. I'd probably word it something like: "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you and obviously that behaviour has upset you, I promise to not do it again".

No. We never had an agreement not to look.

Also, I did apologize for creating a sense of personal violation, but that I don't see anything wrong with looking at character sheets. I said that if it had been narrative information, then I would not have read it as I considered narrative information private. I, also, said that I would not read anyone's character sheet if I knew that they didn't want me to.

That wasn't a sufficient apology for them.

Just a general bit of advice - "I'm sorry, but..." Isn't really an apology, and people don't take it as one. As I said, both sides of this holds a view that is strange to me. You just have a choice, you can be right, or you can be right with them. You can either hold that what you did wasn't wrong (I'm not offering judgement on whether that's the case or not, just showing you your options) and the bad feelings can persist and eventually the wound will either create distance between you and the others or drive you apart, or you can give an actual apology in which you say that you shouldn't have looked and that you won't do it again, at which point the party can move past it and hopefully have a good campaign.

As I said, both attitudes are strange - to look, and to get bent out of shape over someone looking (at least at players, DM's stuff is obviously a no-go anyway). I'm not telling you what's right, I'm showing you your options - decide whether your pride or the game is more important. It doesn't matter how many people on here agree with you (or not), referencing this thread in a discussion won't make things better, only worse. They've obviously got their back up, and you can either be right, or be right with them.

Quote from Linklite >>

Just a general bit of advice - "I'm sorry, but..." Isn't really an apology, and people don't take it as one. As I said, both sides of this holds a view that is strange to me. You just have a choice, you can be right, or you can be right with them. You can either hold that what you did wasn't wrong (I'm not offering judgement on whether that's the case or not, just showing you your options) and the bad feelings can persist and eventually the wound will either create distance between you and the others or drive you apart, or you can give an actual apology in which you say that you shouldn't have looked and that you won't do it again, at which point the party can move past it and hopefully have a good campaign.

As I said, both attitudes are strange - to look, and to get bent out of shape over someone looking (at least at players, DM's stuff is obviously a no-go anyway). I'm not telling you what's right, I'm showing you your options - decide whether your pride or the game is more important. It doesn't matter how many people on here agree with you (or not), referencing this thread in a discussion won't make things better, only worse. They've obviously got their back up, and you can either be right, or be right with them.

It's not about pride. It's about honesty. It feels like the only options are to either lie or lose the group.

To be clear, the lie would be that I believed character sheets were private property and that viewing them was an invasion of privacy at the time that I did it and, also, now.

It's really nobody's business, except the DM's, what is on another player's character sheet. Would I call it an "invasion of privacy"? Not really. But what another player's character sheet has on it isn't your business. If you ask and they willingly give you their sheet, that's perfectly fine.

When I played AD&D in the early 80's, we left our character sheets at the DM's house (yes, in the basem*nt, where all good D&D is played, lol) so the sheets were out in the open and we didn't care who looked.

Yes, it's a team game. In the campaign I am in now, I can't see the other players sheets (on VTT), but I learned what characters could do by what they have already done. I'm sure there are things I don't know, and I'm good with that.

I think the problem comes down to, if another player is looking at your sheet, without permission, will they end up telling you how to play your character? In my campaign,I know the Paladin has Bless, I know the Bard has Greater Restoration, etc... but when a situation comes up where I think it would be good for another player to use one of those spells (or other abilities), I keep my mouth shut because it's not my place to tell another player what to do. If they want to ask for suggestions to the group, fine. But a "hey <insert player name>, you should really use that wand of fireballs that I saw on your sheet, right now" is not OK. And it might be something that the player in question has concerns about when you are taking a peek at their sheet.

Plus, I just think it's common courtesy.

Then accept that this isn't going to go away either leave the campaign or realise that it's going to less cordial. Saying "I'm sorry that you feel the way you do" is pinning the blame on them. Either decide that maybe you should have really asked first, or decide that you were right and realise that this is not a reconcilable point. No one is asking you to lie, just realise that you violated their etiquette, and they want aspect sorted. If you don't think that you are bound by that etiquette, for whatever reason, then not only is this not going to be resolved now, but similar problems will occur in the future.

I'm not joining sides here,.just pointing out your options. My opinion as someone reading this is this: these are major red flags. That this has blown up to not only a thread asking semistrangers on the internet to get involved but you're making this to be about a stand for righteousness tells me that this situation has already deteriorated beyond reasonable hope of redemption. Don't get me wrong - I'm not judging anyone, not you,.not them. There is always more going on than what I could possibly perceive, so it's pointless to try and judge who is right or wrong here. However, that this has gone beyond trying to reconcile and has become about making a point, making a stand, tells me that the situation, regardless of whoever is at fault, is very unlikely to be salvageable at this point.

My advice is to bow out now. You're unlikely to have realmfun with them at this point, so find a different table that has more similars on etiquette to you.

Quote from Linklite >>

Then accept that this isn't going to go away either leave the campaign or realise that it's going to less cordial. Saying "I'm sorry that you feel the way you do" is pinning the blame on them.

Feelings are subjective, that can be seen in this thread where we have all expressed our feelings on the matter. Wren isn’t responsible for other peoples feelings. If some of the people in the group chose to have negative feelings about him looking at their character sheet then that’s their problem, not Wrens. No rules were broken, no cheating occurred and no social agreements were ignored. It’s the other players responsibility to say ‘please don’t look at my character sheet’ and not Wren’s responsibility to be psychic.

To be clear, I’m a player, not a DM.

I would have mentioned that earlier, but the idea of a player hiding a sheet from a DM is so absurd that a need for a clarification never even occurred to me.

I think that this is a case by case basis. The DM should always have access to the player character sheets, but depending on how the table wants to play, I think it's fine to not have them expressly visible or available to the entire party, so long as it's something the full party understands and agrees on.

It's one of those "no right answer" kind of questions, I think, because every table is different. The best course with anything like this is to talk with the group, and discuss what the group wants to do and how to approach it.

Edit: As an example, I played a secret changeling for a while. It was never anything against the party, but I thought it was kind of fun to tease out details and things to the party as a way to try to open up more to RP things. The DM of course knew about it, but it wouldn't have been quite as fun a thing if everyone knew about it ahead of time. This was entirely for fluff purposes and RP though.

Quote from Wren_the_Munificent >>

To be clear, I’m a player, not a DM.

I would have mentioned that earlier, but the idea of a player hiding a sheet from a DM is so absurd that a need for a clarification never even occurred to me.

Some players can be touchy about DMs accessing their sheets too.

To your situation, I don't see this as a predicament or a dilemma and certainly not the "game ender" being augured by one point of view. Are you and the player claiming privacy violation the only members of the party? No? Then this gets worked out at the table. Table determines whether party access to everyone sheets is good for team play and transparency (avoiding, conscious or unconscious sandbagging, subterfuge and maybe even plot twists the DMs not aware of) or players are granted privacy over their sheets. Once that consensus is achieved, whichever player was retroactively out of bounds literally admits a party foul, and everyone moves on. This is the equivalent of a workplace fridge etiquette concern (is the milk/creamer common or individual, if something stinks can anyone toss it, etc.) not something that needs overwrought restorative counseling or voluntary removal from game.

Quote from Farling >>

I very much like not knowing other PC's abilities - in real life you're unlikely to know what everybody else in your team can do.

Depends on what your team does in real life. Regular work? Sure, the team is largely a product of HR processes. Sports, intramural or gym pick up game? Yeah people are going to be amazed and disappointed with their line up. Pro athletes? Not only do you have insight into the capabilities and limits of your team, you got a good sense of the team you're playing against too. Tactical situations. Yeah, if your a patrol officer showing up to all all units respond scenario and the team is dependent on who was on rotation in that patrol sector, or you're talking about a regular infantry unit where people are rotating in and out of enlistment contracts, you figure out who knows what and can do what through trial by fire. Police or military "operator" types (I'm reading Heat 2 so I'll throw out the term "highline crews" too, Heat 2 is awesome by the way), those folks will often cross train into each others specialities, to some degree in order compensate or fill in for contingencies, but it also gives everyone a strong grounding in what everyone's capabilities which helps with operational/tactical planning.

Quote from MidnightPlat >>

Quote from Wren_the_Munificent >>

To be clear, I’m a player, not a DM.

I would have mentioned that earlier, but the idea of a player hiding a sheet from a DM is so absurd that a need for a clarification never even occurred to me.

Some players can be touchy about DMs accessing their sheets too.

To your situation, I don't see this as a predicament or a dilemma and certainly not the "game ender" being augured by one point of view. Are you and the player claiming privacy violation the only members of the party? No? Then this gets worked out at the table. Table determines whether party access to everyone sheets is good for team play and transparency (avoiding, conscious or unconscious sandbagging, subterfuge and maybe even plot twists the DMs not aware of) or players are granted privacy over their sheets. Once that consensus is achieved, whichever player was retroactively out of bounds literally admits a party foul, and everyone moves on. This is the equivalent of a workplace fridge etiquette concern (is the milk/creamer common or individual, if something stinks can anyone toss it, etc.) not something that needs overwrought restorative counseling or voluntary removal from game.

Quote from Farling >>

I very much like not knowing other PC's abilities - in real life you're unlikely to know what everybody else in your team can do.

Depends on what your team does in real life. Regular work? Sure, the team is largely a product of HR processes. Sports, intramural or gym pick up game? Yeah people are going to be amazed and disappointed with their line up. Pro athletes? Not only do you have insight into the capabilities and limits of your team, you got a good sense of the team you're playing against too. Tactical situations. Yeah, if your a patrol officer showing up to all all units respond scenario and the team is dependent on who was on rotation in that patrol sector, or you're talking about a regular infantry unit where people are rotating in and out of enlistment contracts, you figure out who knows what and can do what through trial by fire. Police or military "operator" types (I'm reading Heat 2 so I'll throw out the term "highline crews" too, Heat 2 is awesome by the way), those folks will often cross train into each others specialities, to some degree in order compensate or fill in for contingencies, but it also gives everyone a strong grounding in what everyone's capabilities which helps with operational/tactical planning.

6 people (including the GM) think I’ve cheated or done the equivalent of breaking into their house, 1 person hasn’t commented, the last person sided with me, but hasn’t defended what I’ve done to the others

I told this that many people don’t feel char sheets are private and I pointed them to this thread. They’ve ignored it.

The whole thing has been pretty overwhelming to me and I told them that I’m dropping out of all communication for a week in the hopes that after that time we can discuss it with cooler heads.